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	<title>Comments on: How Much Should You Spend on a Car?</title>
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	<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/</link>
	<description>Money issues for college students and 20-somethings, without being boring.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:32:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-84679</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-84679</guid>
		<description>I guess the problem might be that those &quot;experts&quot; make just a little too much for their own good.  I know I certainly do, but (you knew that was coming) I haven&#039;t always had as much, and it is incredibly unrealistic to assume that everyone is wealthy.  After all, if we all had a great deal of money, there would be no need for car loans at all!

Anyway, keep in mind that Consumer Reports says 36% of gross for DEBT payments.  I wouldn&#039;t consider utilities on the house or gas for the car &#039;debt&#039; (unless you put them on a credit card that is...).  I of course agree with you that everybody should look at their own numbers, but then again, what do rules of thumb exist for but for basic reference to get you in the right general neighborhood?  If you make $1,000,000 a year, your acceptable level of debt may be a much higher percentage than somebody making $30,000 per year.  Also, I think it would be wise to not wish that everybody could run their own numbers, because if they could, who exactly do you think would be reading this?!

Also, I find it very unrealistic that everyone uses gross income as a basis for estimation.  I personally use net for all of my expenses and I think that if you use the 36% rule applied to net income, most people will not have too much trouble.  For example, if you made $30,000 per year take home, you could (according to CR) use $10,800 per year towards debt.  This leaves you with $19,200 per year for food, clothes, gas, utilities, savings, recreation, and health purposes.  Since the average American (I&#039;m assuming you&#039;re single in this example) spends less than $6000 per year on food (source is a U.S. census, I can provide a link if you want) this leaves about $13,200 per year for those other things.  If you say $700 per year for clothes, $500 recreation, and $2000 for health, you are left with around $10,000 for gas, utilities, insurance, savings, and other miscellaneous things.  That $10,800 would get you a fair apartment (here in Austin, TX, a one bed one bath apartment in a nice, central part of town will run you about $650 a month for a two year contract) and a bit left over for a used car.  I think this is perfectly reasonable so long as you are single and don&#039;t have particularly high end tastes.  I&#039;ll shut up now, and sorry for writing such long comments, I just find this topic one of particular interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the problem might be that those &#8220;experts&#8221; make just a little too much for their own good.  I know I certainly do, but (you knew that was coming) I haven&#8217;t always had as much, and it is incredibly unrealistic to assume that everyone is wealthy.  After all, if we all had a great deal of money, there would be no need for car loans at all!</p>
<p>Anyway, keep in mind that Consumer Reports says 36% of gross for DEBT payments.  I wouldn&#8217;t consider utilities on the house or gas for the car &#8216;debt&#8217; (unless you put them on a credit card that is&#8230;).  I of course agree with you that everybody should look at their own numbers, but then again, what do rules of thumb exist for but for basic reference to get you in the right general neighborhood?  If you make $1,000,000 a year, your acceptable level of debt may be a much higher percentage than somebody making $30,000 per year.  Also, I think it would be wise to not wish that everybody could run their own numbers, because if they could, who exactly do you think would be reading this?!</p>
<p>Also, I find it very unrealistic that everyone uses gross income as a basis for estimation.  I personally use net for all of my expenses and I think that if you use the 36% rule applied to net income, most people will not have too much trouble.  For example, if you made $30,000 per year take home, you could (according to CR) use $10,800 per year towards debt.  This leaves you with $19,200 per year for food, clothes, gas, utilities, savings, recreation, and health purposes.  Since the average American (I&#8217;m assuming you&#8217;re single in this example) spends less than $6000 per year on food (source is a U.S. census, I can provide a link if you want) this leaves about $13,200 per year for those other things.  If you say $700 per year for clothes, $500 recreation, and $2000 for health, you are left with around $10,000 for gas, utilities, insurance, savings, and other miscellaneous things.  That $10,800 would get you a fair apartment (here in Austin, TX, a one bed one bath apartment in a nice, central part of town will run you about $650 a month for a two year contract) and a bit left over for a used car.  I think this is perfectly reasonable so long as you are single and don&#8217;t have particularly high end tastes.  I&#8217;ll shut up now, and sorry for writing such long comments, I just find this topic one of particular interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-84650</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 02:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-84650</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments! While I agree with you that the numbers make more sense your way, every &quot;expert&quot; I&#039;ve seen seems to use them the other way - 1/10th of your annual salary for the price of the car you should buy, or the Consumer Reports idea of using no more than 36% of your gross salary for debt payments. But I do agree with you - neither of those metrics provides enough leeway for most Americans to afford a decent car, which leaves them particularly useless rules of thumb. I&#039;d rather people run the numbers and look at their individual finances than rely on these bunk heuristics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments! While I agree with you that the numbers make more sense your way, every &#8220;expert&#8221; I&#8217;ve seen seems to use them the other way &#8211; 1/10th of your annual salary for the price of the car you should buy, or the Consumer Reports idea of using no more than 36% of your gross salary for debt payments. But I do agree with you &#8211; neither of those metrics provides enough leeway for most Americans to afford a decent car, which leaves them particularly useless rules of thumb. I&#8217;d rather people run the numbers and look at their individual finances than rely on these bunk heuristics.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-84649</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-84649</guid>
		<description>I personally disagree about some of your numbers.  Firstly, while 10% of gross on all car expenses total is a little ridiculous for most people (I am easily within that but, then again, I made over $400,000 last year, so...) but I think it is intended to mean &#039;10% of gross income on car payments&#039;, which would mean that if you made, for example, the $50,000 a year you used, $5000 per year could go to car payments.  60 month simple interest loan at 8% (I personally have good credit so mine wasn&#039;t that high back when I financed my vehicles, but then again, this is not about me) would give you just over $20,0000 of loan.  Add in perhaps $2000 for a down payment and a couple grand extra to pay for the other expenses (tax, title, first months payment...) would give you a car stickering around $22,000.  This rhymes fairly well with the estimate of 1/2 of you annual salary for a vehicle, maximum (obviously you want to spend as little as possible while having a vehicle that meets your needs and as many of your desires as is financially practicle).

Second example, I have always heard 28/36% front end/back end ratio (28 housing, 36 total).  The common and usually excepted method for determining housing is mortgage payments/rent plus property tax (if applicable) plus insurance.  I almost never see utillities included in that 28% as they are so variable from person to person, while mortgage payments or rent are not usually (obviously, credit rating will affect the mortgage rate... but I don&#039;t won&#039;t to write an article here, only a comment).  So, this way, 28% of $50,000 on housing (typically buys around 2.5 times your salary, depending on interest rate and how much you put down) leaving you with $4000 for vehicles.  If you still have that $2000 for a down payment plus the extra for the added fees, you could buy around an $18,000 vehicle on a 60 month loan, or about $15,500 on a four year loan.  I think this should be enough for just about anyone to find a satisfactory vehicle.  Maybe not new, but certainly not a rust bucket.

Another factor is, say you buy a new $20,000 vehicle on a four year loan.  With $2000 down, your monthly payment will be about $430.  If you keep the vehicle for, say, eight years, you can save 48(number of months after the loan ends) * $430 (monthly payment that you could hopefully afford during the loan period) = $20,640.  Suddenly you can afford to pay cash for your next vehicle.  If you then keep that vehicle for eight years, you only need to save 1/2 * 430 = $215 per month to pay for you next one in cash (or alternatively, your next vehicle could be $20,640 * 2 = $41,280, ignoring higher insurance and other costs that that would bring).  This is ignoring inflation because I am assuming you put the money in a CD, bond, or low risk mutual fund to hopefully at least keep up with inflation, if not exceed it.

Thank you for the article and keep up with the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally disagree about some of your numbers.  Firstly, while 10% of gross on all car expenses total is a little ridiculous for most people (I am easily within that but, then again, I made over $400,000 last year, so&#8230;) but I think it is intended to mean &#8216;10% of gross income on car payments&#8217;, which would mean that if you made, for example, the $50,000 a year you used, $5000 per year could go to car payments.  60 month simple interest loan at 8% (I personally have good credit so mine wasn&#8217;t that high back when I financed my vehicles, but then again, this is not about me) would give you just over $20,0000 of loan.  Add in perhaps $2000 for a down payment and a couple grand extra to pay for the other expenses (tax, title, first months payment&#8230;) would give you a car stickering around $22,000.  This rhymes fairly well with the estimate of 1/2 of you annual salary for a vehicle, maximum (obviously you want to spend as little as possible while having a vehicle that meets your needs and as many of your desires as is financially practicle).</p>
<p>Second example, I have always heard 28/36% front end/back end ratio (28 housing, 36 total).  The common and usually excepted method for determining housing is mortgage payments/rent plus property tax (if applicable) plus insurance.  I almost never see utillities included in that 28% as they are so variable from person to person, while mortgage payments or rent are not usually (obviously, credit rating will affect the mortgage rate&#8230; but I don&#8217;t won&#8217;t to write an article here, only a comment).  So, this way, 28% of $50,000 on housing (typically buys around 2.5 times your salary, depending on interest rate and how much you put down) leaving you with $4000 for vehicles.  If you still have that $2000 for a down payment plus the extra for the added fees, you could buy around an $18,000 vehicle on a 60 month loan, or about $15,500 on a four year loan.  I think this should be enough for just about anyone to find a satisfactory vehicle.  Maybe not new, but certainly not a rust bucket.</p>
<p>Another factor is, say you buy a new $20,000 vehicle on a four year loan.  With $2000 down, your monthly payment will be about $430.  If you keep the vehicle for, say, eight years, you can save 48(number of months after the loan ends) * $430 (monthly payment that you could hopefully afford during the loan period) = $20,640.  Suddenly you can afford to pay cash for your next vehicle.  If you then keep that vehicle for eight years, you only need to save 1/2 * 430 = $215 per month to pay for you next one in cash (or alternatively, your next vehicle could be $20,640 * 2 = $41,280, ignoring higher insurance and other costs that that would bring).  This is ignoring inflation because I am assuming you put the money in a CD, bond, or low risk mutual fund to hopefully at least keep up with inflation, if not exceed it.</p>
<p>Thank you for the article and keep up with the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-82341</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-82341</guid>
		<description>If you want to save money or get out of debt it is ridiculous to buy a new car.

10% of gross income will buy almost everyone a reliable used car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to save money or get out of debt it is ridiculous to buy a new car.</p>
<p>10% of gross income will buy almost everyone a reliable used car.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon @ Factory Service Manual</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-77105</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon @ Factory Service Manual</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-77105</guid>
		<description>10% of gross income.  I think I am way too conservative on mine then.  I am like 7% something for my car payment.  I guess less is better, so I can save more money for other things and also reduce my car repair and maintenance costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>10% of gross income.  I think I am way too conservative on mine then.  I am like 7% something for my car payment.  I guess less is better, so I can save more money for other things and also reduce my car repair and maintenance costs.</p>
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		<title>By: dana</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76480</link>
		<dc:creator>dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76480</guid>
		<description>car financing is alwyas a big problem. I used to have a car but I found I could not afford it at the end. Well, say good bye to it. I don&#039;t want to be that poor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>car financing is alwyas a big problem. I used to have a car but I found I could not afford it at the end. Well, say good bye to it. I don&#8217;t want to be that poor.</p>
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		<title>By: Clunker Cash Sunk - Weekly Wisdom in Personal Finance – Is it Coming Back? Is it Wise? &#124; Debt Free Adventure!</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76362</link>
		<dc:creator>Clunker Cash Sunk - Weekly Wisdom in Personal Finance – Is it Coming Back? Is it Wise? &#124; Debt Free Adventure!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76362</guid>
		<description>[...] How Much Should You Spend on a Car? &#8211; by Stephanie of Poorer Than You Now this is the way I think!  Stephanie reminds us to ask how much money is appropriate to spend on car expenses each month?  You should give yourself time to really evaluate what you can afford, and what you want, so you can save up a down payment and be fully prepared when you go car shopping. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How Much Should You Spend on a Car? &#8211; by Stephanie of Poorer Than You Now this is the way I think!  Stephanie reminds us to ask how much money is appropriate to spend on car expenses each month?  You should give yourself time to really evaluate what you can afford, and what you want, so you can save up a down payment and be fully prepared when you go car shopping. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lies, Damn Lies, and Formulas</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76283</link>
		<dc:creator>Lies, Damn Lies, and Formulas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76283</guid>
		<description>[...] from Poorer Than You mentioned 10% of gross as a guide for monthly car expenses in her post about how much you should spend on a car, while Tomasz Gorecki took the idea further in response, suggesting buying a car worth no more than [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] from Poorer Than You mentioned 10% of gross as a guide for monthly car expenses in her post about how much you should spend on a car, while Tomasz Gorecki took the idea further in response, suggesting buying a car worth no more than [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tuned</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76268</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76268</guid>
		<description>Car finance is real tricky. I&#039;ve always bought used because new is just too expensive but there&#039;s a limit to how used the car can be. I generally go for something that&#039;s in the region of 3 to 5 years old but still in excellent condition. These cars are usually half the price of a new and still pretty economic and reliable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Car finance is real tricky. I&#8217;ve always bought used because new is just too expensive but there&#8217;s a limit to how used the car can be. I generally go for something that&#8217;s in the region of 3 to 5 years old but still in excellent condition. These cars are usually half the price of a new and still pretty economic and reliable.</p>
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		<title>By: Buy a car that is worth 10% of your gross income &#124; Tomasz Gorecki &#124; Debt In Your 20's Is The Kiss of Death</title>
		<link>http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76211</link>
		<dc:creator>Buy a car that is worth 10% of your gross income &#124; Tomasz Gorecki &#124; Debt In Your 20's Is The Kiss of Death</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 05:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://poorerthanyou.com/2009/07/24/how-much-should-you-spend-on-a-car/#comment-76211</guid>
		<description>[...] If you&#039;re new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!Inspired post by How much should you spend on a car. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If you&#39;re new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!Inspired post by How much should you spend on a car. [...]</p>
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